Conversations About Life, XV

After pondering our last conversation P. continued the dialogue:

Jon!  I could not resist!  After reading your response I read this {P sent another article}.  It goes well with your thinking.

My next question to you, and Susan, is what happened at {the church we were formerly in}?

Susan indicated at one point some kind of hurt?

I still have those tapes you sent me on Sonship.  I still listen to them from time to time.  Very good on being accepted by grace and not by works!



This prompted my reply:


I think I see a trend here – a Ravi disciple??  

I read these types of things {the article sent} and my brain knows there is “good” stuff in there, but it all seems and feels really cold and logical and brainy, leaving me quite disinterested.

I rarely find/feel/hear the “Christian” world talking, writing, being very personal and real and feeling.

What I think we miss is that though Yeshua did all those things talked about, He brought a Presence, a Realness, a Life, that TOUCHED people at their deepest heart, bypassing their head and talk and theology.

It is the Life we miss, I crave and for which I search.

Anything else is a waste of time.

And to say that by “hanging out with Christians” (church) we are in some way being scriptural and “righteous” is a total misunderstanding of the whole concept.

Without the Life also being present, hanging out is no better than an hour or two at the local bar. Actually, the bar would probably be better – more real, less religious, less self-righteous and less arrogant.

Which brings us to {the church we were in}.

I don’t think there was really a hurt.

True, when they were done with me/us they threw us under the bus pretty quickly, but I was ready to leave also.

I had hoped they would let us taper away financially while building the massage practice, but that didn’t happen.

Consequently I went to the lawn service to keep the income flowing and that diluted the practice building.

As clients of the lawn service {the church} also cut our legs out by cancelling their contract, a big hit to us. Then they were asking a lot to park equipment on the parking lot. Neither did they let us live on the property in a situation that would have been ideal for all concerned.

So there was a lot of “stupidity” going on, but not malice, I think. I was also making some bad decisions re the business in my own stupidity so it all combined for an unfortunate situation for us, financially.

Nonetheless, I never felt hurt as much as recognizing that in general they didn’t know how to care for people. We weren’t the only ones thrown away.

More importantly, about the same time I was getting into John Eldredge and more recently Wayne Jacobsen and learning about Love and being Loved, about Realness and Life.

It has become an issue of realizing that “church” is not real. Sonship teaching was great; grace is wonderful, but without Loving people it is just more worthless theology.

I had to remove myself from the morass, the Lifelessness, the dead theology because it pulled me away from Father.

I would go immediately into a “play the game” mode which I was so good at doing for so many years.

I had to get away and find time to get real myself.

Someday I may go back, as the “missionary”, when I can bring some Life and hence a solution, but not when I am part of the problem.

Meanwhile, I have realized that church theology in general and Presbyterian theology in particular, (that church is Presbyterian) is not at all what Father is telling us.

His plan is Free Choice not Reformed or Predestined; Freedom in Righteousness not the Depravity of man. I really don’t fit there anymore.

I still get with some of the folk there from time to time and stay friends.

Always it is a search, an openness, a prayer for others who want to get real, get naked, come alive.

Hope this helps,


So there you have some comments about church and church relationships; not always very pretty, but lots of room to grow and be gracious.  Mostly it presents the chance to hold out for real Life and not just settle for routine.


Dr Jon
Renegade Doc

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